i don't post a ton here because i'm kinda shy.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0373892357?tag=thegirsguitoh-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkcode=as1&creativeasin=0373892357&adid=038ez4bjpam7bcsze5mq&.
that's the amazon link (which is currently the most affordable, i believe, but it's also available for preorder at b&n, borders, indiebound, and indigo-chapters if you're in canada, if you prefer one of those retailers).. .
I can assure everyone on this board that this is a book you will definitely want to read. It's so much more than you think it will be. It's far more than just another ex-JW or apostate rant and rage story.
Hey - to all of you guys here on the board - although it's written by a young woman, it is a book that I loved and couldn't put down. And I can assure you that I'm a "hombre masculino!"
JV
note: the following is not meant to be construed as a recommendation but to demonstrate the sharp contrast between any authentic bible translation and the new world translation.
for those of us who participate and or read the threads on this board, i understand and appreciate that all here have different views on religion, the existence of god, and of the catholic church.
i believe each individuals convictions should be treated with the utmost respect and dignity.
I have mentioned this before in other contexts, but I'll bring this up again. The New World Translation may have never been what it was claimed to be.
Around 1962-63, there was a young brother that showed up at our Kingdom Hall. He'd recently left Bethel and had served in both the British and Brooklyn Bethel homes in various capacities. He was well spoken and clearly well-educated in the British style. He didn't like to talk too much about himself or his background, or why he suddenly appeared at our Kingdom Hall in Southern California. A few of the gossips in the Hall thought he might be "homosexual" (this was before the word "gay" was is wide use) because he was clearly not athletic, he dressed too well, had nicely groomed hair, and, of course, spoke with a British accent. Pretty much sealed the deal for most of the sisters when he refused to be the subject of their match-making efforts.
He and I carpooled to our jobs about 25 miles away. He sensed that I was beginning to slide out of the Witness work because I was avoiding field service and often missed meetings. So I think, because of my age and my lack of enthusiasm for being a JW, he felt he could share some of his personal thoughts with me.
One day, on the way to work, we got in a discussion of Bible translations. He told me that he personally preferred to read the recently released Revised Standard Version, a modern take on the King James, but with modern English. He said that it was joy to read because it retained the poetic characteristics of the original King James Version. I asked him what he thought of the NWT; the Greek Scriptures had been out about 10 years and the Hebrew Scriptures had finally all been released by the time of this conversation. I had just received my special order version of the complete NWT in maroon leather and was very happy with it.
He told me that when he was in Brooklyn Bethel, one of his jobs was to act as an expert on the differences betwen British and American English. He had lived long enough in both countries that he could "interpret" British English for the writing committee and for other purposes.
"You know that the New World Translation is all a sham, don't you?" he asked as we drove along. I was dumbfounded by his question and replied that I had never heard such a thing. I asked how he came to that conclusion.
"Basically what the translation committee did, none of whom could speak, write or read Latin, Greek, or Hebrew, was to gather together all of the Bible translations already available in modern English. They also used the Emphatic Diaglott (a Greek/English version) favored by Russell and Rutherford, and then started rewriting it themselves. They didn't use any old transcripts. They basically rewrote the whole thing by committee, each one taking a book of the Bible and rewriting it in modern North American English. That's all they ever did."
This was the first time I'd heard such a thing (but not the last). I asked him how come the translation seemed so consistent in its language.
"After a book was drafted in the new English, they would all sit down and listen as it was read outloud. Then they would make suggestions on adjustments or the use of different words. They would then vote on acceptance or for more editing. If a verse didn't quite fit Watchtower teachings, they'd look for someway to change it without being too obvious. If they couldn't do it without being obvious, then they came up with some excuse that the brothers would accept without argument. Then the chapter would go to Fred Franz for final review and editing. His final version was pretty much accepted "as is" without argument. That's how it was done."
I asked how he came to know all of this. He explained that some of the translations were produced by British scholars or Bible publishers - and they typically were the best. "But they used some terms that the writing committee wasn't completely comfortable with, so they would call me and a couple of other British brothers to clarify if we could."
He told me that the translation committee was a joke in Bethel - and everyone knew it was Fred Franz's baby. That was one reason that they wanted to keep the committee anonymous - because if the word got out that none of the translators were educated in Greek, Latin, Aramaic, and Hebrew - especially the ancient versions - their poor excuse for a new English language translation would be laughed at and exposed publicly for what it was - a complete and total fraud.
"But that means that the Bethel brothers lied to us about the translators and everything," I said.
"They lie to us all the time. Someday you'll figure it all out for yourself and hopefully the facts will come out. What I'm telling you is the truth. All I ask is that you keep it to yourself - at least for now."
He left our Kingdom Hall a few months later and I completely lost track of him. But I've never forgotten that conversation. Based on what I've heard from other sources and transcripts from a court case that involved Fred Franz, I believe my carpool buddy was telling the truth.
JV
1) i think it's ridiculous to tell anyone when and how to use something they paid for ( computers and internet service ).
2) i think it's ridiculous to tell married couples how to act in the bedroom.
3) i think it's ridiculous to tell people what kinda cars they should buy ( 4 door for fieldservice ).
Edmond Dantes - So right on! Take it another step and wonder, if the bones of the Ancient Worthies were buried somewhere in the Middle East, say Jordan or Palestine - why would they suddenly show up in Southern California? Why not Tel Aviv or Beirut? Or Damascus or Baghdad? But San Diego?
Rutherford was such a shyster and a scammer. He used his basic knowledge of law to convince everyone that nothing in Russell's will needed to be observed, or Russell's selection of successors, or the fact that he did not want an "organization" to run the Bible Students - none of that mattered. He got his little group of special wackos to follow and support him and then he pretty much did, said, and wrote whatever he wanted and knew that know one would stand up to him. I'm sure that he engineered the whole Beth Sarim thing himself for his own benefit - and then simply came up with the Ancient Worthies story to be a cover story for his own greed.
JV
well that was 93 years ago so well probably never know all the facts.
but the wt claims that russell and others were falsely accused of sedition.
the may 9, 1918 new york times article that covered these arrests and sedition charges states that they were charged with spreading doctrines calculated to promote unrest and disloyalty among the men of the army and navy.
Thanks, Alfred. Good - no, EXCELLENT work and research. I'll keep in touch.
JV
so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).
i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.
but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.
Alfred - please check your PMs
so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).
i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.
but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.
Black Sheep -
You are right that the book is still widely available if you look hard enough (Ebay is one location, and an occasional copy shows up on Amazon) - and that many copies can still be found in KH libraries throughout USA and Canada - it is also true that many of the newer KH libraries do not have anything further back than the 1950s version of "Let God Be True" and "The Truth Shall Set You Free." It is also true that many KH libraries were purged in the early to mid-80s of all of Rutherford's and Russell's old books - some going to Goodwill and some ending up in elders' garages to be eaten by mold and termites.
I'd ask all of the readers of this forum that still go to Kingdom Halls to check their local KH libraries and report back what they found there?
1. Are there any Russell books?
2. Are there any Rutherford books, especially the Rainbow series?
3. How far back do the Watchtower annual volumes go back?
4. Are there any Consolation or Golden Age volumes in the libraries?
I think it would be interesting for the forum members to find out what the contents of most KH libraries consist of.
JV
so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).
i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.
but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.
Alfred - you have a PM - please check.
Fat Freek - Thanks!!!
if a friend of mine starts to say things out of emotion and i call him "schizophrenic" then that might be an insult.
however if he is having auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking then that word becomes a description of his situation.. now i ask you.
does the attendance to the kh promote intelligence?
I think there is a time and a place for everything - even a little ridiculous name calling on occasion - depending upon who might become offended. I'm not likely to say, "How's the weather up there, fat boy?" to Shaquille O'Neal. Nope, not appropriate and possibly very dangerous. My medical insurance would probably not cover my expenses for those injuries.
As an editor of a website that criticizes the Watchtower Society, but not individual JWs (unless they happen to be part of that seven man rotation in Patterson or a historical member of the Society), I want to draw in and welcome as many current, recently past, and hopefully wavering JWs that I can. Calling them names, making fun of their magazines and buildings - unless done in something that is clearly supposed to be parody or satire - will chase them away and brand me and my website as "anti-Christian" or "anti-Jehovah," which is not the case.
So here, yes, we should all be used to the funny names and the often biting, harsh, and well-written humor we find here. JWs who come here to find support for anything the Watchtower teaches or supports have come to the wrong place. If they're going to be offended by a few funny names for their ridiculous cult, they deserve to go away and hide from reality and live their miserable lives unloved and unwanted - and without a smile on their face.
JV
i don't post a ton here because i'm kinda shy.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0373892357?tag=thegirsguitoh-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkcode=as1&creativeasin=0373892357&adid=038ez4bjpam7bcsze5mq&.
that's the amazon link (which is currently the most affordable, i believe, but it's also available for preorder at b&n, borders, indiebound, and indigo-chapters if you're in canada, if you prefer one of those retailers).. .
brizzzy - congratulations on your new book. Also you have a PM...
JV
a roaring current of change..... what is going on at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?
in the last couple of years unprecedented changes in policy, procedure, and doctrine have been coming forth in rapid fire sequence.
this uninterrupted episode of new information is beginning to backfire for the rank and file witnesses.
OTWO - No, it's OK. Rick can advertise his phone program. It's always fun to listen to - at least part of it.
On condition though -
NO JOHNNIE THE BETHELITE! Please, Rick, give us a break...
JV
